1. Concerning "Capital Allocators" and Finance Bros - we have something like a planned economy, or at least like socialism, for the rich. Austerity for the peons.
2. I would like to say that it was no secret that the Ancient Greeks were a society of war crazed, boi crazed assholes, but I'd be wrong. Years ago, I read an asinine article in "The American Conservative" to the effect that "America Must Reclaim Its Spartan Heritage".
My response was - "what part of 'Spartan heritage', are we talking about? Are you referring to the exposure of infants, the caste system enforced by periodic massacres of helots at spearpoint, the mania for pederasty, or just the slavery?"
"The American Conservative" published some good and a lot of stupid articles, but one thing I did appreciate about them was that their comment section allowed criticism, even criticism far more scathing than mine.
3. "I’m sure some of this is an unfair comparison because the Persians we meet are closer to the median Persian whereas the Greeks are an all-male band of elite mercenaries, and Bronze Age gonna Bronze Age."
Pretty sure the Anabasis took place in Iron Age Greece.
Yep! Not only Iron Age but post-Classical, pre-Hellenistic 'liminal' period of Ancient Greece. Armor was still bronze and Homer was all about pitiless bronze, but the Bronze Age had ended IRL around 1200 BCE, making it more distant from the era of Xenophon than we are now from say the Frankish era.
Very interesting, although it is a mistake to say that Socrates was dead when Xenophon left for Persia. He tried to dissuade him, but failed. This is a very funny scene in Xenophon's account.
"On another occasion, agents of one of the other cities provoke the army into such egregious indiscipline that Xenophon decides he has to ritually purify them by forcing them to process between the split halves of a sacrificed dog."
In Genesis, Abraham seals his covenant with God by walking through several split animals (Genesis 15:9-10). Robert Alter notes in his Biblical translation (which is excellent, if only for his introductions and commentary!) that this was a common way of sealing a contract in the Ancient Near East. So, mystical trappings aside, this is Xenophon making his soldiers pinky-promise not to get in trouble again.
Great review. Though not sure you can claim that, in contrast to Herodotus, the Anabasis is entirely accurate. After all, nearly everything in Herodotus also checks out against other sources - there are just very few other sources (though I think modern archaeology has tended to support him even where people used to be sceptical about his accounts of barbarian customs). And it seems unlikely that Xenophon's account, written thirty years after the events in question by an Athenian who had retired to Sparta, was in every respect a true reflection of what happened. I haven't read it in a long time, but your review seems to tally with my recollection that there's a lot of "and then this incredibly cool and hard guy called Xenophon did something really awesome, and completely saved the day, and everyone who disagreed with him was an idiot and horrible things happened to them." Neither of them is Thucydides, but I'm not sure Xenophon is more reliable than Herodotus.
1. Minor correction: "the insurgency won, Socrates was murdered by the new super-ultra-democratic government, and Xenophon decided that it was maybe time to get out of town"—Xenophon gets out of town to join the expedition in spring 401, two years before Socrates's trial spring 399. But you're right to say that he is getting out of town due to democratic Athens being a bad place for an ambitious young man who (probably) served the Thirty as a cavalryman.
2. Xenophon's post-anabasis retirement is obscure relative to founding a city, sure. But he remained an active soldier in the service of Sparta (see his Hellenika; also, Agesilaus) and, of course, spends his retirement writing his historical, political, technical, and philosophical works. Oddly enough, the course of his life more closely resembles what Plato and Aristotle recommend than do the lives of Plato and Aristotle themselves. I put it this way in my essay on Anabasis: "After a liberal education, the vigor of youth is best spent in military service, to be followed by marriage and family life. Only later does one settle into a life of leisure, dedicated to politics or philosophy." https://lawliberty.org/book-review/the-socratic-statesman/
As is well known, the word "startup" comes from the word "satrap," who would be funded with venture capital etc.
The Afghans, Arabs and modern day Persians very likely got their homosexual proclivities from the Greeks who had settled among them even before Alexander's conquests.
You should review the first couple of books of Maccabees to see the Greeks from the other perspective.
Regarding Afghan pederasty, it seems plausible that it's related to extreme female seclusion. Where women are virtually invisible, their faces and forms hidden away from public view, it may be that some men imprint on the closest approximation to a female that's actually routinely visible. For that culture area, Generosity and Jealousy: The Swat Pukhtun of Northern Pakistan , by Charles Lindholm, is eye-opening
Love this piece. Good and concise, shows the breadth of the topic without bogging down.
Regarding the note on pederasty in ancient societies, I forgot where I can across this, but saw some research, and it seems to have basically been all over the place and widespread before missionaries. There is an African saint from Uganda who was martyred because his new faith would not permit him to be molested by the king.
Well, based on this review, I bought the book and am enjoying reading it. One point which Xenophon alludes to -- but never seems to focus on -- is that the 10,000 Greek soldiers plus their slaves, boys, and comely women must have seemed like a plague of locusts to the populations through which they passed. The Greeks had to buy or steal food from the locals as they marched through. Probably the choice for the locals was to sell what they had stored up over the summer, and then starve in the winter, or to fight. No wonder so many of the tribes and groups chose to fight the Greeks.
Or the locals could do what the Taochoi did -- threw themselves down cliffs to their death, women & children too, to avoid being captured and becoming Greek slaves. Life was hard in those days.
"median Persian"
I laughed at this unintentional pun.
Are you *sure* it was unintentional? ;-)
Not at all.
1. Concerning "Capital Allocators" and Finance Bros - we have something like a planned economy, or at least like socialism, for the rich. Austerity for the peons.
2. I would like to say that it was no secret that the Ancient Greeks were a society of war crazed, boi crazed assholes, but I'd be wrong. Years ago, I read an asinine article in "The American Conservative" to the effect that "America Must Reclaim Its Spartan Heritage".
My response was - "what part of 'Spartan heritage', are we talking about? Are you referring to the exposure of infants, the caste system enforced by periodic massacres of helots at spearpoint, the mania for pederasty, or just the slavery?"
"The American Conservative" published some good and a lot of stupid articles, but one thing I did appreciate about them was that their comment section allowed criticism, even criticism far more scathing than mine.
3. "I’m sure some of this is an unfair comparison because the Persians we meet are closer to the median Persian whereas the Greeks are an all-male band of elite mercenaries, and Bronze Age gonna Bronze Age."
Pretty sure the Anabasis took place in Iron Age Greece.
Yep! Not only Iron Age but post-Classical, pre-Hellenistic 'liminal' period of Ancient Greece. Armor was still bronze and Homer was all about pitiless bronze, but the Bronze Age had ended IRL around 1200 BCE, making it more distant from the era of Xenophon than we are now from say the Frankish era.
In modern slavic cultures, sneezing is *still* viewed as a sign that "правду говоришь!" (you speak truth).
"Je to pravda!" in Czech ("It is true!")
Wow, I just got the feeling that I should visit Psmiths and I can see a new article being fully 2 minutes old.
Pallas Athena must have called me here.
Very interesting, although it is a mistake to say that Socrates was dead when Xenophon left for Persia. He tried to dissuade him, but failed. This is a very funny scene in Xenophon's account.
"On another occasion, agents of one of the other cities provoke the army into such egregious indiscipline that Xenophon decides he has to ritually purify them by forcing them to process between the split halves of a sacrificed dog."
In Genesis, Abraham seals his covenant with God by walking through several split animals (Genesis 15:9-10). Robert Alter notes in his Biblical translation (which is excellent, if only for his introductions and commentary!) that this was a common way of sealing a contract in the Ancient Near East. So, mystical trappings aside, this is Xenophon making his soldiers pinky-promise not to get in trouble again.
Great review. Though not sure you can claim that, in contrast to Herodotus, the Anabasis is entirely accurate. After all, nearly everything in Herodotus also checks out against other sources - there are just very few other sources (though I think modern archaeology has tended to support him even where people used to be sceptical about his accounts of barbarian customs). And it seems unlikely that Xenophon's account, written thirty years after the events in question by an Athenian who had retired to Sparta, was in every respect a true reflection of what happened. I haven't read it in a long time, but your review seems to tally with my recollection that there's a lot of "and then this incredibly cool and hard guy called Xenophon did something really awesome, and completely saved the day, and everyone who disagreed with him was an idiot and horrible things happened to them." Neither of them is Thucydides, but I'm not sure Xenophon is more reliable than Herodotus.
Great review of a great book.
1. Minor correction: "the insurgency won, Socrates was murdered by the new super-ultra-democratic government, and Xenophon decided that it was maybe time to get out of town"—Xenophon gets out of town to join the expedition in spring 401, two years before Socrates's trial spring 399. But you're right to say that he is getting out of town due to democratic Athens being a bad place for an ambitious young man who (probably) served the Thirty as a cavalryman.
2. Xenophon's post-anabasis retirement is obscure relative to founding a city, sure. But he remained an active soldier in the service of Sparta (see his Hellenika; also, Agesilaus) and, of course, spends his retirement writing his historical, political, technical, and philosophical works. Oddly enough, the course of his life more closely resembles what Plato and Aristotle recommend than do the lives of Plato and Aristotle themselves. I put it this way in my essay on Anabasis: "After a liberal education, the vigor of youth is best spent in military service, to be followed by marriage and family life. Only later does one settle into a life of leisure, dedicated to politics or philosophy." https://lawliberty.org/book-review/the-socratic-statesman/
As is well known, the word "startup" comes from the word "satrap," who would be funded with venture capital etc.
The Afghans, Arabs and modern day Persians very likely got their homosexual proclivities from the Greeks who had settled among them even before Alexander's conquests.
You should review the first couple of books of Maccabees to see the Greeks from the other perspective.
Great piece!
The Bronze Age ended around 1200 BCE. Xenophon lived so much later, even the Iron Age was already over.
The "kardouchoi" are the Kardashians. Obviously.
Regarding Afghan pederasty, it seems plausible that it's related to extreme female seclusion. Where women are virtually invisible, their faces and forms hidden away from public view, it may be that some men imprint on the closest approximation to a female that's actually routinely visible. For that culture area, Generosity and Jealousy: The Swat Pukhtun of Northern Pakistan , by Charles Lindholm, is eye-opening
Love this piece. Good and concise, shows the breadth of the topic without bogging down.
Regarding the note on pederasty in ancient societies, I forgot where I can across this, but saw some research, and it seems to have basically been all over the place and widespread before missionaries. There is an African saint from Uganda who was martyred because his new faith would not permit him to be molested by the king.
And we think our leaders are bad now.
Wow this is a really great piece, thank you so much. I just put the book on my reading list too.
Great article. Thank you.
> the median Persian
_rolls eyes_
(They are in fact conjectured to come from the same PIE root!)
Well, based on this review, I bought the book and am enjoying reading it. One point which Xenophon alludes to -- but never seems to focus on -- is that the 10,000 Greek soldiers plus their slaves, boys, and comely women must have seemed like a plague of locusts to the populations through which they passed. The Greeks had to buy or steal food from the locals as they marched through. Probably the choice for the locals was to sell what they had stored up over the summer, and then starve in the winter, or to fight. No wonder so many of the tribes and groups chose to fight the Greeks.
Or the locals could do what the Taochoi did -- threw themselves down cliffs to their death, women & children too, to avoid being captured and becoming Greek slaves. Life was hard in those days.