My late father liked to read scholarly Chinese history. I got him the Mote book for Christmas, and he read it twice in the Winter and Spring. He was an undemonstrative man. That Summer, he said to me "That Mote book is REALLY GOOD." Which is the highest praise I ever heard him bestow on any book.
I highly endorse reviewing all historic books through the lens of how they impact classic 4X strategy games.
Also, how similar is the Khitan "okay, THESE guys will be the warriors, riding horses, doing falconry, and THOSE guys will be the bureaucrats, governors and tax collectors, and they'll marry in their groups, but not try to usurp each other's roles, and so we'll get the benefits of both groups" to say, Indian caste systems? Which were, I think, themselves imposed by conquest elites? (People who know Indian history better than me, please insult and correct me)
Something that's never clear to me is how deeply any of this stuff informs the Chinese Communist Party's attitude to the world.
It's easy as a Westerner to read these books and assume you've learnt something about how the Chinese think, and it for sure makes sense to expect that Chinese history would lead the CCP to be a lot more conservative and obsessed with social stability. (As compared to the Americans, who are naturally optimistic and revolutionary because radical change has always worked out really well for them.) But it's hard to tell if Xi Jinping's decisions are actually informed by the ancient legacy of a thousand years of dynastic conflict, or if that's just cheap Orientalising.
You know, I always had an inkling that "The Mote In God's Eye" by Niven and Pournelle was a "this is totally not navy vessels and that is totally not China"-kind of scifi. Having a China scholar named F.W. Mote running around at the same time definitely adds to that.
I wonder how much of Chinese history is stuff that actually happened and how much of it is comparable to the wilder stories that appear in hagiographies and the like. The story of the Confucian scholar being executed has a lot of similarities to a tale from a martyrology.
I haven’t read Mote (but now I shall!), but I’m a “barbarian” guy myself—one of my minor fields in my doctoral work at Chicago was pre-modern Central Asia. I just wanted to note that this cycle goes back considerably further—e.g., the Northern Wei dynasty was run by the scions of a nomadic confederation which other nomads called the Tabghach. And that Genghis Khan’s comitatus (or Männerbund or gesið or what have you) also contained a shocking number of great military men. A provocative read about nomadic political culture: David Sneath, The Headless State.
You know you can be a Barbarian if you want, right? The modern version is being a digital nomad. I like it quite well, but I don't know if it's any good for raising children. They need stability.
Great review. If Justinian had actually succeeded in reunifying Rome I think we might see a much more Chinese feel to European history. I think the reason it didn't happen was China's geography is much more isolated except at the northern end.
What a terrific review. If I can summon the courage, I'll buy the book and maybe even read it. How does it compare to Spence's history (also from a long time ago.)
When I was in college, I resolved to major in Asian studies (Whatever became of Wittfogel's "hydraulic state" and "oriental despotism"). But I ended up switching majors for two reasons:
first, I realized that China had too much dang history for someone like me to do more than scratch the surface, and second, after a year of Mandarin I couldn't even read a newspaper headline (it didn't help that there was a war in the department about whether to use the Communist simplified characters or the traditional characters. I translated a lot of sentences like "the imperialist stooges charged up the hill and were annihilated all at once.)
Anyway, with your description of Zhu Yuanzhang I'm wondering where Zheng He and his treasure fleet fits in. I had always imagined the Ming to be fairly liberal and enlightened until the fleets were shut down.
Finally, I humbly advise you to ask your friend, as Chico asked Groucho, "Why a duck?"
This Sinification cycle you're talking about reminds me of a lot of things, but most strongly of the later Dune books. Particularly the increasing decadence and weakness of the Fremen after Dune is made into a paradise, and of course the way that Leto II made such an effort to breed Duncan's "primitive" genes back into the royal line.
My late father liked to read scholarly Chinese history. I got him the Mote book for Christmas, and he read it twice in the Winter and Spring. He was an undemonstrative man. That Summer, he said to me "That Mote book is REALLY GOOD." Which is the highest praise I ever heard him bestow on any book.
I highly endorse reviewing all historic books through the lens of how they impact classic 4X strategy games.
Also, how similar is the Khitan "okay, THESE guys will be the warriors, riding horses, doing falconry, and THOSE guys will be the bureaucrats, governors and tax collectors, and they'll marry in their groups, but not try to usurp each other's roles, and so we'll get the benefits of both groups" to say, Indian caste systems? Which were, I think, themselves imposed by conquest elites? (People who know Indian history better than me, please insult and correct me)
Something that's never clear to me is how deeply any of this stuff informs the Chinese Communist Party's attitude to the world.
It's easy as a Westerner to read these books and assume you've learnt something about how the Chinese think, and it for sure makes sense to expect that Chinese history would lead the CCP to be a lot more conservative and obsessed with social stability. (As compared to the Americans, who are naturally optimistic and revolutionary because radical change has always worked out really well for them.) But it's hard to tell if Xi Jinping's decisions are actually informed by the ancient legacy of a thousand years of dynastic conflict, or if that's just cheap Orientalising.
You know, I always had an inkling that "The Mote In God's Eye" by Niven and Pournelle was a "this is totally not navy vessels and that is totally not China"-kind of scifi. Having a China scholar named F.W. Mote running around at the same time definitely adds to that.
I wonder how much of Chinese history is stuff that actually happened and how much of it is comparable to the wilder stories that appear in hagiographies and the like. The story of the Confucian scholar being executed has a lot of similarities to a tale from a martyrology.
You're right to be skeptical. This story sounds implausible to me too, but it was too good not to include!
I haven’t read Mote (but now I shall!), but I’m a “barbarian” guy myself—one of my minor fields in my doctoral work at Chicago was pre-modern Central Asia. I just wanted to note that this cycle goes back considerably further—e.g., the Northern Wei dynasty was run by the scions of a nomadic confederation which other nomads called the Tabghach. And that Genghis Khan’s comitatus (or Männerbund or gesið or what have you) also contained a shocking number of great military men. A provocative read about nomadic political culture: David Sneath, The Headless State.
I just learned an incredibly apposite quote: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E7%AA%AE%E5%B1%B1%E6%83%A1%E6%B0%B4%E5%87%BA%E5%88%81%E6%B0%91
You know you can be a Barbarian if you want, right? The modern version is being a digital nomad. I like it quite well, but I don't know if it's any good for raising children. They need stability.
Great review. If Justinian had actually succeeded in reunifying Rome I think we might see a much more Chinese feel to European history. I think the reason it didn't happen was China's geography is much more isolated except at the northern end.
What a terrific review. If I can summon the courage, I'll buy the book and maybe even read it. How does it compare to Spence's history (also from a long time ago.)
When I was in college, I resolved to major in Asian studies (Whatever became of Wittfogel's "hydraulic state" and "oriental despotism"). But I ended up switching majors for two reasons:
first, I realized that China had too much dang history for someone like me to do more than scratch the surface, and second, after a year of Mandarin I couldn't even read a newspaper headline (it didn't help that there was a war in the department about whether to use the Communist simplified characters or the traditional characters. I translated a lot of sentences like "the imperialist stooges charged up the hill and were annihilated all at once.)
Anyway, with your description of Zhu Yuanzhang I'm wondering where Zheng He and his treasure fleet fits in. I had always imagined the Ming to be fairly liberal and enlightened until the fleets were shut down.
Finally, I humbly advise you to ask your friend, as Chico asked Groucho, "Why a duck?"
This Sinification cycle you're talking about reminds me of a lot of things, but most strongly of the later Dune books. Particularly the increasing decadence and weakness of the Fremen after Dune is made into a paradise, and of course the way that Leto II made such an effort to breed Duncan's "primitive" genes back into the royal line.
In that case, you would probably enjoy reading Bret Devereaux's 4-part series about "The Fremen Mirage" on his excellent historical blog: https://acoup.blog/category/collections/the-fremen-mirage/