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DalaiLana's avatar

Footnote 5 reminds me of the last two Jews in Afghanistan, who each had their own synagogue because they refused to speak to each other.

Julia D.'s avatar

“You don’t even need to share the ‘no’ if you share enough of the ‘yes’” is a good hypothesis, but I'm not sure it's supported by the evidence you've provided here from the Amish.

Things that are not predictive of high community retention rates:

- Yes or no to mechanization

- Yes or no to farming and unified household work

- Yes or no to teenage liberties

- Yes or no to living near other settlements in the community

Things that are predictive of high community retention rates:

- No to self, yes to community: Gelassenheit

- No to individual conscience, conviction, and relationship with God

- No to homeschooling and family culture

- No to interacting with anyone who commits excommunicable offenses

- No to Openness (in the Big Five sense)

- Yes to their particular community regardless of whatever its Ordnung or member list might be at the moment

This seems like a better but still not comprehensive fit with Scott Alexander’s hypothesis about how costly signaling assists community cohesion: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/12/17/the-toxoplasma-of-rage/

Here's another example of how costly signaling can maintain the boundaries of backscratchers clubs: https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/lifeboat-games-and-backscratchers

Also, it provides a surprising amount of support for the often-denied hypothesis that you can have a strong community that's directly and explicitly optimizing for having a strong community rather than as a side effect of some other shared goal (like religion maybe?).

If you are Haidt-pilled, you might recall, though, that costly signaling still seems to work better, somehow, within religious communities than secular ones:

“The anthropologist Richard Sosis…found one master variable: the number of costly sacrifices that each commune demanded from its members. It was things like giving up alcohol and tobacco, fasting for days at a time, conforming to a communal dress code or hairstyle, or cutting ties with outsiders. For religious communes, the effect was perfectly linear: the more sacrifice a commune demanded, the longer it lasted. But Sosis was surprised to discover that demands for sacrifice did not help secular communes.” https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/12/list-of-the-passages-i-highlighted-in-my-copy-of-jonathan-haidts-the-righteous-mind/

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