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Ian Crandell's avatar

Statistically speaking your children are probably far to the right of the bell curve, as both you and Jane appear to be.

collin's avatar

Great post! I agree with you that even if Papert didn't precisely nail down the how, he's pointing at a very laden bough of low-hanging fruit. And actually, I think your anecdote about Logo might point to another issue besides the limited-by-engaged-adults one. Using code to move an actual robot seems to promise the tight feedback loop that helps young learners. But I wonder if that feedback loop is *too* tight: there's no need to imagine and predict what might happen in the world. You just type some stuff in and the robot goes or it doesn't. It's like doing a Sudoku where you check for correctness after every input: you don't see the harmony of a good strategy over random guessing, because random guessing works well enough when you can instantly learn if you're in a blind alley or not. It needs to be possible to be well and truly stuck for you to properly value the tools that get you unstuck. But the robot is always there and can't do anything but scoot along anyhow; how stuck can you ever be?

So I think the problem is that it can't *only* be primitives; then you have no motivation to come up with higher order structures. I think the real thing young learners should do with their computers is play roguelikes to cultivate Cyrus The Great's enjoyment of challenge. Get your kids to climb to A20 in Slay The Spire. They'll never succeed in understanding it solely through the brute primitives: if their inner monologue is only using cards like "energy, cards, relic" you might clear the bottom levels but you'll get hardstuck. They'll have to find the chunks that are actually useful ways to conceptualize Spire. Or better yet, they'll have to watch videos of pros explaining themselves, and realize that *they can just steal the developed ontologies of domain experts to leapfrog their development, and this works incredibly well, and why doesn't everyone do this all of the time.* That's how I'd do it. (Disclaimer that I am a classical air-type autist building crystalline mind palaces instead of eating whose parenting experience is "a week of being a summer camp counselor-in-training" and all parenting advice is presumably suspect.)

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