Discussion about this post

User's avatar
La Gazzetta Europea's avatar

Btw, incredible how influenced by Rosseau and Marx her thinking is. "If only there were no oppressive forces around, we could be all gallant and nice and insert here whatever."

NSH's avatar

So I've got to say I would not read such a book more than the review even though as a feminist I suppose I'm supposed to be the audience. I don't think, however, it is an actual feminist leaning book. Feminism isn't about demonizing any particular man for being man, let alone simply for being tall and bearded and working with one's hands. Some of the things the author of the book said seemed designed too make her reader roll their eye at feminism--as indeed most journalistic statements on feminism are meant to.

But equally I take issue with Ms. PSmith's take here. I roll my eyes at the idea she's expressed, multiple times that men are endowed by their gender to be a cross between Ayn Rand's Hero and Rudyard Kipling's now you are a man son. It's rather like setting gender based on the character of the Virgin Mary or and saying here proof that gender differences are real.

To make the argument that women are only acceptable when they do things that are traditionally male is a sound argument but to suggest that we should train ONLY girls in that, or we don't value the traditional female, I mean seriously? Also, Martha Stewart would like to have a word--and since I happen to know at least one of the people who taught her her skills, she was an outlier not in feminine skills but in marketing. Or one could point to her predecessor Julia Child, who mastered feminine skills and worked for the OSS.

It's this idea I find most stifling, as a mother, as a feminist as an old farm girl and thus observer of nature and as a human being, the idea that being a mother (and overall nurturer) is a cordoned off identity, that it necessarily requires one to not ambitious, or a fighter or a physically active doer, etc. That is observably untrue.

It is, as much of a sexist idea, a classist one, and a wildly middle class one at that. The idea of lady (and its counterpart gentlemen, which was a thing men could be) is of course a bit of a class conceit, a way too think one-selves above the people who did the real work. Maids, who not only women but also spent far more of their lives making a home beautiful and nurturing did not get to be ladies, not even their offshoot as nurses/nannies ,nor did slave-women.

But at least at one time the term lady came with a real sense of power, and its full expression of it. Lady's we required to have honor, and stoicism, and that careless humor in the face of disaster that men have now claimed for themselves. They were supposed to gather the people of the castle to defend it and if all hope was lost, and only rape and murder possible--throw themselves off its parapets.

Now, with the middle class moralists working on it, the term has devolved so that only those with whose zest for life is in their beige twinsets and ability to keep their sex life as decorous as possible and not the kind, the courageous and rarely the nurturing. It's not feminism's fault the word got shelved.

Nor is it feminism's fault that Heathcliffian behavior is generally considered less acceptable than gentlemanly kinds. (It was a shocking book when it was written as well.) Though really, putting out this kind of book when Heathcliffe is President of the United states seems willfully blind.

I find much more interesting the idea I read, also in a review of a book I would have read but had small children then, that because of our social ideas we don't see traits we code as one sexes as the other. We don't see women's interest in marriage and children as risk taking even though it clearly is. We don't see coaching and the like as nurturing even though it is. Heck, this author talks about men sharing factoids and doesn't see women sharing recipes etc. in the same light. We don't actually only talk about emotion and the biggest gossips I know are men-but we don't put those behaviors in that basket and so find "proof" of gender stereotypes.

But the proof that gender stereotypes are untrue is that in fact, whole certain behaviors gather more people of one sex or another, they don't do it universally i.e. Individuals differ on which behaviors they exhibit in keeping with their gender and which they don't.

And finally, if you are going to quote the study that shows primate have a greater interest in wheeled things, you have to also note that they had an equal interest in the doll and other nurturing toys. Something that is seen in field observation on them in the young.

90 more comments...

No posts

Ready for more?